So I was exposed to 9 alignment D&D first. Elric, Corum, and old-school Law/Neutrality/Chaos D&D came later.
So I was exposed to 9 alignment D&D first. Elric, Corum, and old-school Law/Neutrality/Chaos D&D came later.
In Law/Neutrality/Chaos D&D, what do we do with Lawful Evil? Is it Law? or is it Chaos because it's evil? What about Chaotic Good? Not that Law can't fight Law or Chaos fight Chaos, but it doesn't fit the "cosmic balance" tradition.
My first exposure to the alignment grid was a GM telling me why his game would not have it and the system we were using instead.
ReplyDelete( All mortals were true neutral unless they were a living saint or a monstrous kinslayer)
It is chaos. Anything that stresses the bonds between people an subjugates the will to the point where one years for chaos over order will result in that chaos.
ReplyDeleteA tyranny can only survive as long as the leader an keep power and after that there is a power vacuum.
The Elric cosmic balance isn't the D&D balance. D&D is more the order vs chaos of the giants of Norse Myth and their Gods of civilization.
That's good stuff, Matt Maranda. Lawful Evil is kind of Chaos disguised as Law then.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair in Moorcock's writing there is no 9-grid. It is:
ReplyDeleteLaw(Evil)--Neutral(Goodish)--Chaos(Evil)
In early Moorcock Chaos is the bad guy because it is stronger, in later Moorcock Law is the bad guy because it is stronger. The good guys are the mortals who try not to get squashed by the gods/demons of both sides.
When Gygax first started GMing it was very war-gamey in that he had all players be one side fighting against him on the opposite side: Good vs Evil, or Law vs Chaos.
It probably depends on the source. Three Hearts and Three Lions has Law vs. Chaos, with the protagonist being an agent of Law and fighting against destructive forces of Chaos, but he's aided in his quest by some benign Chaos-aligned individuals as well. It seems that in this case both sides have the capabilities to be good or evil. With Chaos it manifests as destruction, and with Law it manifests as enslavement and oppression.
ReplyDeleteI like this conceptualization:
ReplyDeletehttp://bloodofprokopius.blogspot.com/2011/08/conan-and-alignment.html
Brendan Strejcek he's describing something similar to the Icon Relationship system from 13th Age. Your loyalty is not to abstract ideals of good or evil but you are for or against a set of ideals or political groups or leaders. So your paladin might side with a powerful dragon that fights demons (aligned with the Great Gold Wyrm), or for a religious figure (the Priestess), or even a crusader who fights for glory and conquest yet worships dark gods (the Crusader); you could even be anti-demons (negative relationship with the Diabolist) or anti-undead (negative relationship with the Lich King)... or any combination of different opinions and 'alignments'.
ReplyDeleteBret Gillan I would say "Three Hearts, Three Lions" still represents chaos as evil and lawful as good. The "chaotic" creatures that help him still believe in a society and civilization that is something greater than one that is self-serving and inherently unstable.
ReplyDelete